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+--- Sujet : Lettre pour Budokai 4 (/showthread.php?tid=157)
- samy - 10-26-2005
je vient de lire votre immense mail et de visionner votre site et c'est vraiment bien expliquer tout sa bravo pour votre long travail !
vous decrivez le budokai ultime la lol
neanmoins je doute trés fort qu'une PS2 peut gerer tout sa
(pas assez puissant, je penss que la ps3 serait parfaite pour ce que vous decrivez)
- lostangel2 - 11-16-2005
COUCOU
bon je fais vite ! j'ai plus eu ternet pendant un bon bout de temps comme vous avez pu le constater !
mes soucis ont mis du temps à se régler, et un déménagement au milieu de tout ça n'a sûrement pas dû aider à ce que ça se rêgle vite :p
d'autant plus que je redéménage dans 3 mois :p
sinon je me connectais de temps en temps en 56k mais bon payer pour de l'adsl qui marche pas plus des communications de fou en me connectant en 56k, bah c'était pas top ! en plus de ça il semblait merder bien grave :p quand je venais ici c'était vraiment galère (trop de bannières peut-être) ! j'allais parfois sur jeuxfrance pour ceux qui m'y croisent, mais majoritairement c'était un pote qui y faisait mes points (d'ailleurs l'enculé en a profité pou utiliser mon mot de passe sur msn pour draguer une de mes amies et avait bloqué tous mes contacts, enfin je lui en veux pas trop, elle est si mimi que je le comprend presque ! mais elle elle a plus rien pigé quand c'est moi qui a repris ma session :p )
du coup il c bien fait niqué sur ce coup là
enfin sinon voilà j'ai odnc ternet depuis peu mais j'avoue n'avoir songé à repasser ici que tard ce soir !
voici ce qui attendait depuis si longtemps (et que personne n'a fait en mon absence bande de vilains :p )
Introduction
Who are us?
With this web site we represent a “small” community of French-speaking Dragon Ball’s fans.
We are all meeting and discussing on a small forum created by one of us. In the group of fans I represent there are all the most famous and respected fans of the French network, and of the international network for some of us. But for some reason I will not talk about them because some of them want remaining anonymous, and I also don’t want to forget one of them. But I can tell you that if you ask one Internet surfer, the name of the 20 biggest fans that he ever met on the web, all of them would be there.
Introduction
What is our aim?
Now that I’ve finished this little presentation, I am going to explain our request right away.
We, as Dragon Ball’s fans, have all been really interested by the new Dragon Ball Z Budokai 3, for some by the PAL version, but incontestably for a majority among us, by the Japanese version that went out some time ago.
Because of the huge success of that third opus of Budokai on all the continents, it looks obvious that after such a huge success, a Budokai 4 will be, or is being made. Even if it is not the case, I wish that you’ll read this message with the biggest interest because I think this would be the best representation of our desires for a Dragon Ball game, and all the propositions made here could be used later for other games.
You have to know we concerted on a lot of points, and for the ones that were too complicated, we made some surveys, but all of our reflexions were made to suggest some improvements in a eventual Budokai 4 and not to change it totally.
Now I will enumerate you a detailed list concerning the multiple points on which we are leaning over.
general changes
the sounds choice
In an undeniable way, the first requirement would be to reinstate the Japanese voices (and maybe the US voices allegedly obligatory) because a lot of people hate the Pal version just for this reason, but also because the explications given didn’t look really credible, and that still now, some games came out on our territory with the Japanese voices. An other point is that different magazines and specialized sites in video games had unanimously criticized this choice as soon as Budokai 2 release, and this through all Europe. An alternative solution could have been found. Moreover the Japanese doubling could be better realized because even in this version the people who made the voices looked as if they had no motivation, and furthermore the stamps of voice specific to certain transformations (as those of freezer) were not respected. It may be possible to recover these voices directly in the cartoon, in order to really find the voices such as they made us vibrate.
In the same way, the musics of the cartoon would be really perfect, much more in agreement with the spirit of the game and being able to well better retranscribe the atmosphere of the series.
Here are some audio samples extracted from budokai 3 we have modified in order to show you the difference :
Sample N°1, "Kakarotto" of Broly : Original version of the game/Modified version
Sample N°2, Gohan’s transformation : Original version of the game/Modified version
Sample N°3, Kaiôken of Gokû : Original version of the game/Modified version
Sample N°4, Gokû’s transformation : Original version of the game/Modified version
Sample N°5, Kienzan of Kulilin : Original version of the game/Modified version
However if the original voices and music are more than necessary, translations have to not be forsaken, because hitherto they appeared rather poor, with many errors and inconsistencies.
general changes
which universe to choose
Second point, that we submited to a poll, in order to reflect which Dragon Ball universe people prefer to play with. Actually, it seems pretty strange to see, on a box entitled Dragon Ball “Z” Budokai, a SSJ4 Goku, who is a character from DBGT, a serie of which Akira Toriyama has a very small part to play in. Moreover you said that you wanted to respect his work, and this choice is not in this way. Furthermore, by adding this “GT” part to the “Z” universe in this game, you must have been aware that the GT serie is by far the serie fans like the less. Our poll have showed this. According to our results, for a hypothetical Budokai 4, it would be better to lead the game in the Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z and the Side Films, rather than in the GT universe. Finally, a game based mainly on the GT universe would be a good idea for none of us.
general changes
the story mode
Concerning a story mode , we find it a lot better than in Budokai 2, however it could have been better if cinematics (little movies showing the story) were included like in Budokai 1. A greater interactivity would also be a good idea, some freedom according to the books were allowed in this Budokai 3, why couldn’t you let the player go in the game in different ways than in the manga, for example if a character wins or loses a fight, the story would take a different way, instead of winning a fight, and then facing the frustration of a small bubble telling you that you died ! Of course some fights are still essential for the story.
New quests should be added, only they wouldn’t be in the story, they would be aside of it, these quests would let us win some hidden characters from the movies, whose stories doesn’t respect the original Dragon Ball chronology.
The RPG part, or the part allowing us to distribute points to our characters is a great idea, especially in the Dragon Area mode ; however some new critera should be added, and mainly the “Speed” a very important notion in the manga.
The Capsules should also be affected by this point system, we could for example decide exactly what strength (guard, speed…) percentage allows each transformation.
What difference each point given make should also been more explicitly explained ; we could then know if we win 1% of strength or 2% of speed with one point or another.
general changes
good points and new upgrading capabilities
The innovations in this budokai 3 are really good en well inegrated, dodgings and teleportations allow to give a new dynamic to the gameplay, with regard to the Hyper mode, even if it requires to be rehandled (as described in the part "particular Details", according to the ideas that we collected), it remains a good idea. It is also the case for the changes of body positions for some characters according to their levels of transformation, which reinforces the differentiations between the characters, in their style, and even in their way of moving. The new system of KI is also ideally conceived (except this detail for the SSJ2), because finally it gives back all the interest to the transformations. The tournament of Cell is also interesting, by the fact that this mode is a little freer (with fusions, and the impossibility to be ejected of the ring). These small changes brings really positive points to the game and amply deserve to be preserved (and improved as it is possible).
Graphically, the game became very pleasant in Budokai 3, even if it is not yet perfect, but some characters, as Mirai Trunks (Trunks of the future), seem less well designed.
In order to make the game evolve, new options like a tag mode (like that of Naruto for example, where joint attacks could be realizable), or a 4 player mode could be added.
Another possibility could be to add a new mode that allow to completely create our warrior, on all his aspects. A base of data would be created, and which contains several categories in order to define our character, such as for example a "physical" category, a "skills" category, and a last one to define the "fighting style". We know that with regard to these 2 last categories it could be difficult to reinvent skills, or fighting styles, that could never be used. An easier way could be to create only a very low number of original techniques and single styles, but to allow by the same time to allot to the character already existing techniques, such as for example giving to our misadventure the style of fight of Tenshinhan, with in its techniques the possibility of carrying out the Final Flash of Bejîta (Vegeta) and small Kame Hame ha of Gokû. For its physical aspect, the base of data could be separated under various sections, in order to differentiate the race from our warrior: Human, Extraterrestrial, Monster, Saiyajin, Androïde... each category containing various specificities typical of it, the transformations into SSJ 1,2 or 3 being reserved for Saiyajins, and for the monsters or the extraterrestrial ones it would be given to them the possibility of recreating a form radically different from the original form (or simply to make it evolve) for a “transformation”. In each section, the parameters to define our character must be numerous: stoutnesses, the shape and details of the faces, colors of skin (for the monsters, extraterrestrial and androïdes), clothes (that monsters and extraterrestrial could not have), models of auras...
general changes
spirit of dragon ball
In a general way we would like more fidelity with respect to the work of Toriyama, even if “what if” stories and characters could be preserved (like the fusion of Tenshinhan and Yamcha : Yamhan), errors too numerous souldn’t exist in a game that want to retranscribe this universe, as the auras of SSJ2 and SSJ3, whom flashes must be blue, a SSJ2 that should not exist for Mirai Trunks (moreover why having remove Ultra Saiyajin and Ultra Saiyajin 2 which he had in budokai 1?) and for Gojîta (Gogeta) (particular SSJ aura that should be very high and wide), or characters like Shônen Gokû or Mr. Satan who should not know how to fly (that could accept for Satan, via its jet pack, and if he had been only with this small originality, but for child Gokû this error becomes too nonsensical, possibly he could use its Kinto' un (magical cloud) when he flight, and this is the same thing for the teleportation of these characters. In addition if others characters of the universe of Dragon Ball (Kamé Sennin (Mutenrôshi), Taopaipai...) would been integrated, the fact they cannot fly must be take into consideration (I am sure this is completely possible, by projecting them far in an original way when an adversary strikes them violently). Or to see Son Gokû transforming into SSJ4, moreover without passing by the stage of gold Oozaru (giant Gorilla). To see Gokû SSJ4 in the game, it would have been at least desirable to integrate Chibi Gokû (small Gokû), of Dragon Ball GT, in order to allow him, and only him, to reach the SSJ4, possibly with a short kinematics where he would pass by gold Oozaru before becoming SSJ4.
In addition the power levels are far from being respected (but if they were the game would become unplayable), however some compromises could be done order to make it possible to have characters whose ratios of power are more coherent, even if some transformations (as those of Freeza for example) would finally bring only one small percentage of attack/guard/speed more, the interest staying in seeing the visual transformation, and in the evolution of the basic KI level of the characters. On this point also, it would be more faithful to see the SSJ2 with a basic KI of 5, just like the SSJ3, as the SSJ2 appears more stable than the SSJ3 in the manga, and its profit of power should also be larger to him.
The transformations could appear with a short kinematic (that we see with the first use of the transformation during the fight, with an option allowing to remove it) in order to retranscribe the intensity of them. Some transformations could become limited temporarily, like the SSJ3 of Son Gokû, but this effect could be inhibit thanks to the capsule "Haloes of angel" for example.
gameplay
the ultimates
A significant improvement relates to the ultimate attacks. They should first of all be more numerous, and being again possible to do by manipulations like in the 2 first Budokai, and by pressing the concerned button (L2, or the four bouton at the same time) but at this moment the player can select the attack that he wants to realise by choosing between the differents ultimates of the character, according with the KI level that the character have
(example : Triangle = first ultimate ( 3 KI bars ) ; square = second ultimate ( 5 KI bars ) ;
circle = fusion 1 ; cross= fusion 2)
The fusions should eventually be activable far from the adversary, without doing any manipulation or other stuff, but still with some specific conditions.
gameplay
the possibility to counter the ultimates, and its realisation, with a new base
It would be very great to make the ultimates being stoppable, but above all to give the possibility of sending them back!
A new idea for that would be to create different lenghts for the bars. They could be defined in three different ways
- The person who’s making the ultimate, posses à bigger gauge
- Both players have the same gauge
- The defender would have a bigger gauge than the attacker
The longuest gauge thus confers an unquestionable advantage in the duel.
At equal power, the one who is attacking would have a small advantage, with a gauge just a bit bigger, if he is a bit weaker than his adversary, the two gauges would be the same, and if he is really weaker, he finds himself handicapped and the defender would got a bigger gauge, which remains coherent with the logic of the manga, a Super Saiyen “Sûpâ Sayajin” which can obviously easily counter an attack of an ordinary warrior.
A first idea for the attribution of the gauges, which would be better to follow the power level of the warrior, but for that, the level of them would have to be coherent. For example in a duel Furîza/ Son Gokû, by always taking Furîza doing a ultimate (even in his initial form because he used it to destroy the planet of the Saiyajin (planet Bejîta)) and by taking Son Gokû ssj1, Furizâ in his initial form against Gokû ssj1 would have a shorter gauge, but being in itshis final form, the two gauges would be the same, and in his final form at 100%, he would have the advantage with a bigger gauge.
But an other idea would simply to always give the advantage to the one who is doing the ultimate, but this method would be less faithfull.
Then, with regard to the realization of the counter themselves, it could take account of certain criteria. Indeed it appears logical that the one who wants to counter the ultimate has enough in KI level to realise it, and that it use KI too (3 KI bars would be the minimum needed, and will be used for the counter). It is evident that some characters would not be able to counter the other, Kame Sennin, or Kid Gokû can’t counter a Final Flash from Bejîta. A simple method to resolve that problem, would be to stop the possiblility of counter to people who doesn’t have a base of KI of 3 or more. But, this would also prevent the possibility of making some actions as a duel of Kame Hame Ha (in ultimate attack) between Kid Gokû and Kame Senin. But, some characters could be help by someone who would realise the counter at his place (Gohan for Bîderu, Majin Buu for Mister Satan).
The possibility of counter would intervene at the moment when the one who did the utimate made his choice, with a buton to press for the defender if he want to, and can, make his counter, and which will automatically use 3 of his KI bars at the end of the action (like that his aura could still be seen if he was in Hyper Mode), even if he did not carry out his counter. Indeed this wouldn’t happen if the one who made the ultimate win the duel in the first phase.
The action will be realise this way then. Le player 1 (p1) make the ultimate and make his choice between his propositions (according to its ki and to the techniques of ultimate attacks/fusion which is allotted to him), at this time the player 2 (p2) press a button (if he has the possibility and if he wishes it). Then start the duel of gauges with the attribution of gauges with possibly different sizes.
In case if p2 didn’t have the possibility of making his counter, or if he didn’t want to make it: if p1 has at the end of the duel, a large advantage (length is still to define), he terrace p2 and by sending its attack at the maximum (ultimate maybe more powerful, as for the big bang of Bejîta), if the jauges are almost at the same level (with a small variation, possible to define too), p2 receive the ultimae by protecting himself, and last if p2 win the duel (with always an advantage on the gauge of p1) he dodges the ultimate by flying far away (except for the case of the burning attack of Torankusu, when he catches up with his adversary and finish his ultimate like with metal furîza), or by walking for the haracters who can’t fly (Chihi Gokû could dodge it by escaping with his Kinto un).
This principle (no counter achievable) would even work in case of ultimate attacks made by weak fighters, a character like Videl, in her hazardous attempt (if we choose the solution that gives an advantage to the most powerful character) to place an ultimate against Bejîta, in order she will not have to receive a final flash in counter.
If j2 decides to counter the attack, if p1 wins the duel, the same thing than in the precedent case would happen, except that p2 loses his 3 Ki bars pointlessly. However if p2 manages to reach a level of gauge equivalent or higher than that of p1, then p2 realises an ultimate to counter his adversary, and the two ultimates encounter, a new gauge duel appears, both with 2 gauges of equal length, or always by following the rule of the advantage to the most powerful character to determine the length of gauges.
The one who loses that new gauge duel gets more powerful injury than the ultimate made at the beginning.
gameplay
the dragon rush
With regard to the dragon rush, they must be more diversified. They are really all looking the same for all the characters. At least it would be necessary do customize the end of the DR for each player (without any use of capsule, and why not different according to the transformation, like with Frurîza in Budokai 3) leaving the possibility to the player, if its ki is sufficient, to make and ultimate (or other action like fusion) in the same way than the system explain before, at the last phase of the DR.
gameplay
free flying, free teleportations
It would be really desirable that the fly become freer, with the possibility for example of flying away directly to the top (respectively downwards) by pressing twice up (respectively twice down).
In the same categorie, as the fly which should be freer the teleportations should, them too, be easily useable, less expensive in KI for the teleportations which already exist (for counters, or by sequences) and the possibility to teleporte of as far as we want should be include (with for example this manipulation : gard + twice front). If the 2 players do the teleportation at the same time, we could enter in a mode like the “thunder fight”, with a fight by turning the joysticks, and at the screen we would see, like in the animated serie, some super fast move in the sky, creating multiple successive round waves, then at the end one of the two players would be ejected on the floor and creating a huge crater on the ground, and why not put a possibility of “finish” with the arrival of that which won the duel from above to insert his adversary still more in this crater, with for example the choice between 4 buttons, and if the looser pushes the same button as the other one, he could stand up and go out of the crater before the other comes to punch him again.
gameplay
more techniques
Obviously, more techniques for the characters would be necessary, and especially for unexploited characters like Gohan komodo or seru junia, that’s why every characters must at least possesses one personnal ultimate attack. A rather simple way making it possible to diversify the blows already existing would be to include some manipulations like up or down plus the punch or kick. Thus new combos could be created.
Some ultimates are accessible only to some level of transformation, so it would be pleasant to be able regress of transformation level (for the characters where that remains coherent like the ssj, but not for furizâ for example) by doing a manipulation like : down + button of transformation (L1). The same way if we do : up + button of transformation (L1) would allow, if the ki is sufficient, to pass at the next level. If we directly press L1 you would transform the character to the maximum level that its KI enables him to reach.
visual changes
fight arenas
Concerning stage areas, their fidelity to the anime is very pleasant, however they should be first of all, a lot bigger, so the player is not always blocked by invisible walls, which can be very frustrating. The stages should also be more interactive, with more destruction, or partial desctruction (craters, foot prints when the player is projected backwards, devasted zones, and intact zones a little further…). Some stages with water in it would be very welcomed (with the possibility to be projected underwater and to keep fighting there, or to go down the water on your own will with the new flying capacity described earlier, with movements logically slowed down). This stage could perfectly be the “house of Kame Sennin”.
Also we were disappointed to see some stages from Budokai 2 simply disappear, like the one in the snow, or the one in Kamisama’s Palace, it would be nice to have those back.
In the idea to improve the Tournament Mode, why not include the stage of the Tournament of the Dead World (Where Dead Goku fights Paikuhan), a non-destroyed version of the Cell Ring, and why not the stage area in “Hell” during the movie “Fusion” (when Janenba fights Gojeta).
visual changes
real damages
Since Budokai 2 we are looking forward to see appearant damages on the characters, it would be great to be able to watch the intensity of the fight, just by looking a tour characters fighting. The costumes could just slowly get ripped apart (or destroyed slowly, for armors for example), some could finish stripped to the waist (like Goku is in several episodes of the serie) some marks could appear on the characters faces.
This could lead to an option that could allow us to hide the stats bars on the top of the screen (life, ki etc..) so only the fighters would appear, we could tell how bad they are injured just by looking at them (for the ki, it would imply that we know the ki level of our transformation, and we could vaguely guess our ki level. But this is just an option, that we fan would appreciate since it would be really close to the anime).
visual changes
auras
The auras, as for them, should not more appear permanently, but almost only during the hyper-mode. this detail is more amply explained in the "particular details" part. However the auras appear obviously at the time of the loads of ki (except for some characters as the androides), but they could be seen more diversified according to the characters. Indeed their forms can be different. In addition more effects on the ground would make them still more impressive, than it is at the time of the loads of ki, but also at the time of the transformations, where they also appear (but without passing in hyper-mode for as much) and that for a short lapse of time (some seconds), always with an aim of showing all the power of it.
Finally, colors of auras must be more respected, such as for the ssj2 and ssj3, with blue flashes and not yellows.
particular details
hyper-mode
Concerning one of the main innovation of Budokai’s gameplay, i’m talking about Hyper Mode of course, it is a good point in the Budokai series, but it presented several issues to us. First, it is very repetitive, all the characters do exactly the same thing. Then the visual aspect could be different to be more faithful to the manga. About this visual aspect, our idea would be that the fighters wouldn’t have auras in the normal phases of the game, whatever the ki level might be, therefore, whenever a character goes into Hyper Mode, the aura will appear (it will allow the Sayajin to have a light yellow color of hair during the game, and it will be bright with the aura as it is in Budokai 3). Auras would also appear (they could be different depending on the transformation level, like a round aura for Goku SSJ3) when fighters are charging their Ki, and during high speed movement.
About Hyper Mode, instead of losing Ki, we would rather have a Time Jauge, and the character will only be tired if he uses all his Ki. To go into Hyper Mode should also bring a slight gain of attack power, depending on the number of Ki Barrs above the Basic Ki Level (the attack power remaining always the same outside Hyper Mode) which combined with the aura system we explained earlier would bring a more faithful aspect.
To go into Hyper Mode should also have another manipulation, like (Back+Transformation Button) which would allow 2 other manipulations that I’ll explain later.
Hyper Mode and Hyper Mode only would let you use Dragon Rush (we propose another manipulation : L2 = all 4 buttons) so teleportation would still be usable in Hyper Mode. Guard, and the ability to charge Ki should not be desactivate during Hyper Mode.
However to go into Hyper Mode should be LIMITED so we cannot overuse this ability.
particular details
the capsules system
The capsule system could also be revised. It is difficult to understand why people like Goku are very limited in Capsule slots (7) when Cell Jr. would only use 2 slots. Some characters should have more capsule slots, or we could just delete the capsule system, but the RPG part of the game would be damaged, mainly in the story mode.
In the same way, some capsules like Majin Vegeta or the Metal Versions of Cooler and Freezer could appear as simple transformations instead of using many slots for a so little effect. However you could still put limits to their used, like a level of sufficiently low health.
New Capsules “Breakthrough +”, or “Breakthrough Z” should be added, they could be more expensive or harder to find, but they would contain ALL the fusions that the characters can use
Finally, the fact to see and see again the same capsules in the shop quickly becomes exasperating, the player loses mainly time, but also interest and pleasure in the game, Each capsule should only be bought one or two times (for the capsules that could be cumulated). The random capsule choice could be deleted to avoid some kind of cheating.
particular details
the end of fight
The ending of the fights could sometime have more “panache”. A Temporary Ko mode could be added, the fighter would be on the floor, and we would have to turn the joysticks, or he would automatically block a hit if it was inferior to a certain damage. The same kind of idea was used in the last Saint Seiya game on Ps2 ("Saint Seiya Sankutuari Jûnykyû Hen").
Moreover a REPLAY would be very nice (like in all major fighting games). And why not an online mode?
significant additions
To conclude this letter, I will now quote the different ideas that we had for new characters, or what can be changed in characters, oufits to add, and ultimates.
significant additions
new characters
Click on the names to obtain informations and screens.
Dragon Ball :
- Kame Sennin, his second outfit would be Jackie Choun (Jakkî Chun),
- Taopaïpaï,
Dragon Ball Z :
- les oozaru, appearing in at least some ultimates (Baddack (Bâdakku), Thalès (Târesu)…).
- Païkuan (Paikûhan),
Movies and OAVs :
- Garlic jr (gâlikku jr), with his transformation,
- Dr Willow,
- Thalès (târesu),
- Slugh (Suraggu),
- c13, with his transformation absorbing the pieces of c14 and c15,
- Bojack (bôjakku) with his transformation,
- Bio Broly (Baioburorî),
- Janenba (at least in his second form) when he would appear in a level, the sky would be filled with giant Balls like in « Hell » so one of his ultimates would be to catch the opponant with a long arm hurt him in the ball field and finish him with a sword ; or teleporting like he does in the movie (Fusion)
- Tapion, he could have an ultimate when Hildegarn would attack the opponent, and finish by calling him back into him by playing the Ocarina,
- Hacchyakku,
You can quote that several characters are from the first Dragon Ball universe, when characters could not fly or teleport. For them it would be better if they couldn’t fly, wich would be a different way to fight.
If Dragon Ball GT is still in this Dragon Ball Z game :
- Gokû kid (Chibi Gokû) from DBGT, he would be the only Goku to reach the SSJ4 form, his transformations being (SSJ, SSJ2, SSJ3, SSJ4),
- Pan,
- Trunks (GT version),
- Goten (GT version),
- Super-c17 (sûpa jinzô ningen 17 gô),
- Baby,
- other black dragons.
In the same spirit as the Cell Jr. or Saibamen, little groups could be created where the characters would appear one at a time, when one fighter loses, his companion would come and continue the fight.
- the Ginew Commando (Reecom becoming a member of the Commando, but Ginew would remain a playable character on his own). They could have an ultimate together with Ginew to realize their pose,
- Bojack’s servants could appear together one after the other and could realize an ultimate together, using Paralysis (where Bojack could appear) and some of the Servants could have a transformation (Gokua becomming green like Bojack, hair raised for Zanghia),
- The return of Zabon and Dodoria together, Zabon would appear in second so he can transform. Each of them could have an ultimate (Dodoria could have the one he uses againt Baddack in the anime),
- The return of c19, who could appear in a duo with c20/Dr.Gero, each of them could have an absorption ultimate,
- c14 and c15 on the same principle.
significant additions
ideas for new ultimates
- Kamé Sennin could have its "max Power Kamé Hamé ha" as an ultimate attack,
- Taopaipai will carry out its Super Dodonpa,
- the Saturday’s attack of Radditz, too easy to place and also too effective, should be recreated in the form of an ultimate attack, more expensive in KI, and whose effectiveness could be hardly higher. Why not combine this ultimate with a powerful blow of knee in the abdomen of the adversary, such as at first time he met Gokû,
- Yônen Gohan could attack as he does on Namek when he is irritated face to Freeza. He delivers to its adversary blows of fists and feet (in the airs) to violently dispatch him on the ground and then dispatches him a lot of Kikoha, and finally a more powerful last,
- Goten could do a common ultimate attack with Yônen Trunks (Trunks child) (that described lower, identical to this of Trunks). However if the adversary can send a ki blast, then a second ultimate attack is offered to Goten, a multi Kamé Hamé ha (with a minimal consumption of 6 bars of KI), where the adversary would project Goten far. There he has the possibility to prepare a super attack to complete it, according to the same principle that the idea of counter proposed higher, put aside that it is him which prepares the attack in first. If he prepares the attack, if Goten loses the combat of gauge he receives the attack without get up, if the gauges balance Gohan interposes by preparing a Kamé Hamé ha and Goten joined him by sending in its turn a Kamé Hamé ha, finally if Goten wins the duel of gauges, the situation remains the same one, but Gokû intervenes and appears between its 2 sons in order to carry out the triple Kamé Hamé ha. If the adversary does not prepare an attack, only Gohan intervenes and the principle remains the same one as when there is no counter. If this solution is not possible, replace the basic ultimate attack in duet with Trunks by an ultimate attack Kamé Hamé Ha with Son gokû and Son Gohan (as in the OAV "Kiken Na futari! Sûpâ senshi wa nemurenai "(Return of Broly)),
- the ultimate attack of Yônen Trunks would be done accompanied by Goten, as in the film" Sûpâ senshi gekiha!! Katsu No wa ore da "(Bio Broly), giving together several blows on the opponent, and finishing the attack by a double Kamé Hamé Ha carried out together (only one and even bowl, with perfectly symmetrical Trunks and Goten),
- Paikuhan could realise a Thunder Crush and/or Hyper Tornade in his ultimate attack, or a combination of both, with Hyper Tornade first of all, then Thunder Crush if he wins the duel of gauge,
- when Janenba does one of its ultimates he should catch his adversary, then by lengthening its arm would involve him in the fields of balls (that appears in the stage when Janenba is selected ), and he teleports (thanks to its particular technique) to complete it by a blow of sword or an energy ball (as he does face to Gokû, with only the arm which appears first of all),
- Tapion could have an ultimate where Hildegân would leave its body and would attack its adversary.
Exceptions for some characters who still have an ultimate:
- Shônen Gohan (teen Gohan) should see its Kamé Hamé Ha modified Gokû a little, to add to it an additional plan as against Cell,
- Tenshinhan could have an ultimate attack with a "basic" Kikoho, rising in the airs and creating a rectangular hole in the ground, and a second ultimate attack, Shin Kikoho, more violent, such as he does in Budokai 3, but with the rectangular hole in more (possibly increasing in each Kikoho), with fainding if he gains the duel, and possibly a lose in its level of health,
- Gokû should be able to carry out Super Kamé Hamé Ha, becoming possibly a teleport Kamé Hamé Ha (as against cell) if the duel is won at the first phase,
- the final flash og Bejîta should become its most powerful ultimate attack (and the most expensive) because in the series it is much more powerful than its Big-bang Attack !
- the ultimate of Genkidama de Cell must be remove because he never uses it in the series, and it could be replaced by Super Kamé Hamé Ha which he could make high in the sky (as to try to destroy the Earth when he knows that he will not manage to beat of Son Gohan SSJ2 differently).
significant additions
new clothes
Lastly, here a list of costumes which would be to add, knowing that some would not be necessary if the damage were seen finally included (what appears necessary to us):
- the various costumes of all the characters should be seen declined in their damaged forms if the damage were not included (broken armours, torn off for Bejîta, Recoom...),
- Gokû should have its costume with the Saiyajin armour, such as he was during its drive in the room of the Spirit and Time, as well as the costume of Yardrats (that which he wears at its return on Earth, after the fight Metal Freeza/Mirai Trunks), and its various orange dresses (with the variations of symbols), as well as a costume naked chest (which could be its final state if clothes tore),
- Shônen Gohan could have its costume with its cape, just as the kimono of Gokû which he wears in the film "Ginga giri giri!! Bucchigri No sugoi yatsu "(Bojack), and always in the possibility which the damage were not taken into account, a torn costume.
- Mirai Trunks should have 2 dresses at least : with the long hair, in its armour and in its normal dress with the jacket stopping at the shoulders (the jacket being able to tear while transforming into SSJ, as in the film "Moetsukiro!! Nessen ¤ Ressen ¤ Chô gekisen "(Broly)). He would also have the same clothes with the short hair : armour and the jacket in Jean which does not tear while transforming into SSJ this time,
- Seisen Gohan (adult Gohan) was seen removed its costume of Great Saiyaman, the return of this one would be thus welcome. that which he wears facing dâbura with damage included, then the costume of the gods, and why not a costume of Miraï Gohan (such as he is in the OAV "Zetsubâ He No hankô!! Noko sareda your chô senshi ¤ Gohan to Torankusu "(history of Trunks), if possible with an arm in less (even if that appears more complicated) would be also desirable,
- Yônen Gohan could have the costume which he dresses at the time of its training with Piccolo,
- Tenshinhan could have a dess where he is twisted naked.
significant additions
the case of buu
In the case of buu, the fact that he appears in 3 different forms is appropriated for half of us, the others wishing only 2 buus or only one. However for logical reasons, there should be a minimum of 2 buus, the fat and another one. However, it is more practical to keep Kid Buu separately. But as for Super Buu, we are all agree to notice some problems. He starts in a normal form but he would appear as a skinny gray buu. The second problem is the random absorption system wich is not very faithful to the manga.
Nevertheless, he should reabsorb how many times he wants to reach all his forms (eating Fat Buu, absorbing Gotenks and Piccolo, and Gohan, maybe Tenshinhan and Yamcha, or even rejecting those he absorbed to become Normal Buu again, why not reject Fat Buu and become Kid Buu).
Another solution (more simple) would be to give him the ability to transform to replace the absorption system, so he could transform in the correct order to end with the final form (Gohan absoption, or to become again Kid Buu, if there are 2 or 3 Buus).
It could be possible (with the option to visualize long version or short version of some transformation) that Buu’s transformation could also have long and short versions. The long one being transforming the opponent in chocolate of surround him with Buu’s parts (depending on the characters he’s absorbing) ; in the short version we would have a glimpse of the chocolat or the part of Buu getting back at him, and then he would be transformed.
Finally, when he absorbs Gotenks and Piccolo, he would stay in his strongest form : Buu-Gotenks, and he would have a timer and when the time is over, he would go to his Buu-Piccolo form as in the manga and only from this form he could transform into Buu-Gohan.
If the damages were visible, he could have holes in him and he could regenerate according to his Ki level with a guard jauge that could go down depending on his status.
significant additions
a problem of sizes
A last point, always relating to the characters, but also to the fidelity and respect to the work of Toriyama, would be to better respect the sizes of the characters. If some are perfectly appropriate at the level of their proportions (majority of the heroes), some are seen too disproportionate like Tenshinhan or Piccolo which are too small comparatively to Son Gokû, just like large Boo which seems really too small towards Son Gokû SSJ3, or Broly which appears too large comparatively to Coora in its final form. Here 2 outlines done by Toriyama concerning the sizes of the characters as well as a screenshot that represents Gokû and Paikuhan. Outline 1, outline 2, screenshot.
Conclusion
After the reading of the integrality of our file, you should have been able to note that our reflexion has related to many points, and I point out it, always with a current aim of proposing an improvement in Budokai, in order to make them evolve/move and not to completely reinvent them. We know that in the development of a game, waitings of the players are of primary importance, since they translate exactly what for us, would make it the this best game, and what for you, would result inevitably in better sales. Ultimate Budokai was still not created but with all the ideas that we advanced here think that the game would approach the more of that it should be. For this reason we sincerely hold so that this file is transmitted to possible people the closest to the production and/or development of the game.
In order to answer us and/or, if need be, to ask us further details on such or for such point which would not be suffisament clear, you can write to us at these address: lostangel__2@hotmail.com, genkidbz@wanadoo.fr We warmly thank you to have lent as much attention to this file and await your news impatiently. PS: following the recent advertisement of a new play concerning this universe that we like so much, Dragon Ball Z Sparking, we also made a point of expressing our interest, knowing that we also hope that you will be able as fast as possible to communicate to us (and why not personally and directly) of further information.
ça ne doit sûrement pas être parfait ! je l'ai resurvolé avant de le poster mais bon je ne suis pas non plus bilingue. j'espère que ça aura encore son utilité et quand genki aura pu le mettre sur son site j'écrirais à la personne d'atari pour lui signaler que c'est fini et m'excuser d'un si long retard !
bon à très vite tout le monde ! bisous à tous
- Gregnas - 11-16-2005
Bon retour parmis nous Lost
Sinon merci pour la lettre qui j'espere poura etre enfin envoyer
- Chenzen - 11-17-2005
Bonnes nouvelle, ça va faire avancer les choses merci :)
rep - oniruto - 11-17-2005
Pütin les gars je viens de faire le tour du topic .....
VOUS ETES DES MALADES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Avec le site du B4 en plus c hallucinent !!!!!!!!!
FRANCHEMENT RESPECT et J ESPERE QU UN TRUC C QUE TSUKAMOTO PRENDRA EN CONTE VOS MODIFS SI C LE CAS CE SERA LE DBZ LE MEILLEUR DE TOUS LES TEMPS !!!!!!!!!!
HOPE
Ja Né !!!!
Re: rep - Hatake - 11-18-2005
oniruto a écrit :Pütin les gars je viens de faire le tour du topic .....
VOUS ETES DES MALADES !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Avec le site du B4 en plus c hallucinent !!!!!!!!!
FRANCHEMENT RESPECT et J ESPERE QU UN TRUC C QUE TSUKAMOTO PRENDRA EN CONTE VOS MODIFS SI C LE CAS CE SERA LE DBZ LE MEILLEUR DE TOUS LES TEMPS !!!!!!!!!!
HOPE
Ja Né !!!!
Oui anthony grabit (atari France) a proposé une version anglaise, mais bon ! On ne sait pas vraiment, et il doute si cela aura un réel impact, néanmoins, certains choses intéressantes sont à retenir. (On fait pas un JV comme ca!) Mais c est une tres bonne initiative
rep - oniruto - 11-18-2005
Si le jeu se fait sur cette structure c sur est certain qu'il cartonnera... tous les fans vont se l'arracher et les autres aussi
GARANTIE SUR FACTURE .... Maintenant ce qui est certain aussi c que c cher gars d'atari a mon avis trouverons des feintes pour ne pas faire telle que demander la fierté des developpeurs etc... y en prendrai trop pour leur grade en suivant un recette qui marcherai a coup sur.. donnée par des fans dans l'âme qui leur montrerai ce que c de faire un jeu qui respect réellement la série pour de vrai Haaaaaaaaa !!!!! si javais les moyens financiers pour le réaliser
ca serai le top !!!!A la limite on a qu'a essayé de trouvé un généreux sponsort!!!! et on se demerde seul ....NON????
(je suis sérieux.... mais je c ke c enorme)
Ja Né !!!!!!
- Mangasmaniac - 11-19-2005
Re , en tout cas , trés bon travail rien à y redire , au faite j'ai contacté Anthony (de Atari) , je lui ai donc envoyé un Email et explique la situation , et il ma répondu , qu'il acceptai de transmettre le dossier donc normalement ça devrait être bon je lui ai donné le lien du topic , et là je viens de précisé que c'était dans le post de Lostangel , vu qu'il ma demandé de précisé au cas ou
.Quoi qu'il en soit je tiens à le remecier pour ce qu'il va faire , et il devrait normalement se charger de l'affaire et donc transmettre votre travail auprés des développeurs des jeux DBZ . Voilà en tout cas trés bon boulot les gars , bravo à vous :) .
- Gregnas - 11-19-2005
Oui mais normalement avant de l'envoyer fallait qu'il fasse le site avec la partie en Anglais non? avec les sons et les images !!
- Mangasmaniac - 11-19-2005
Gregnas a écrit :Oui mais normalement avant de l'envoyer fallait qu'il fasse le site avec la partie en Anglais non? avec les sons et les images !!
Arf désolé je savais pas , donc excusez moi
, je vais le prévenir et lui dire qu'au faite qu'il sera hebergé sur un site .